Off The Record with Matt Pask and Lee Griffiths

Alex: Welcome to another edition of Off the Record. My next guests are a duo who together have built one of the most well established specialist recruitment businesses in the uk. Lee Griffiths and Matt Pask are the joint managing directors of Streamline Recruitment, a business they co founded in 2004 and have grown over the past two decades into a multi division operation with two branches and a team of over 30 consultants. Now what makes Streamline stand out is the complementary expertise these two bring to the table. Lee's background is in building services and M and E construction recruitment. He actually started his career as an M and E CAD technician before moving into recruitment, giving him a genuine ground level understanding of the industry that he serves. With nearly 30 years in building services recruitment, his knowledge of the M and E sector is second to none. Matt meanwhile heads up Streamline's driving industrial and supply chain divisions bringing his own deep expertise in volume and peak recruitment workforce planning and solving some of the sector's toughest talent challenges. Together they built a business rooted in long term relationships, honesty and a genuine partnership approach to recruitment. And with each other. They're also co founders of People Not Paper, a venture that very much reflects their forward thinking approach to how recruitment should actually work. Lee and Matt, thanks so much for coming on.

Lee: No, thank you for having us.

Alex: You're more than welcome. Now I've known you guys for a while, a few years and it's been a pleasure to see your business. Not since the big. Since the early days but maybe the last five, six years. How's business at the moment?

Lee: Tough.

Alex: That good? Yeah, it's been tough.

Lee: I've got me. It's been tough and yeah. This. Since COVID Since COVID Don't go on. There was a. There was a.

Alex: You had a post Covid.

Lee: Yeah. Like a lot of people did.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: And then.

Matt: Very much so.

Lee: And then. Yeah there's. There's still been a few different battles here and there but we march on.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: It feels like we're back in the. It's how recruitment should, should be, how recruitment is. It's tough to get talent. Companies are watching their budgets.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: But if you're good at what you do you can play some. There's business out there. You've got that. That's pretty much how you. So you've just got to be good at what you do and there's years ago it got quite easy.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Post covered. It's I say sort of the minute from the boys.

Alex: That's the one thing base quite easy from like a BD perspective. Just got tougher.

Lee: Literally. I'd say what Matt's just said there is where it's just gone back to how recruitment is. Recruitment is not easy. A lot of people think recruitment is easy, but it's not. When you're dealing with personality. Personality, you're not just selling a product, a car, a phone to a person. It's just gone back to how it is as where when up pre covered a lot of it sounds wrong but a lot of clients were just taking on.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: Anyone because they had work they had to do and they. They were taking people just to fill seats.

Alex: They needed to hire, they needed to grow.

Lee: Just get the work done and stuff like that and get it churned out as quick as possible because everyone's playing catch up.

Matt: Do you feel like BD is similar but the talent out there has changed and what the talent wants so from we've got. So Lee's traditional recruitment. Mine is more of a service industry. So Lee's side is the talent now. You know, they want the work life balance. The working from home has come in since COVID which wasn't really there prior to Covid. So that's a huge challenge on Lee side. Never affected my side because you can't be in a lorry working from home. So ours now is just that it's the quality and that we're finding hard people don't always want to do. From my perspective, the lower end jobs and say the manual labor, the driving, you know, if you're in a school environment, who's telling you to be a lorry driver now? It's all it.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: You know, roles that are coming to these jobs that we don't even know about that are going to be what our children are going to be doing, you know, so that's. It's changing, the landscape is changing and, and we sort of see it firsthand but we still have to still. Those jobs are still there. So it's how you overcome those challenges.

Alex: Yeah. So let's go back. So you've been in this partnership a long time. How did that start? I mean, I take it you were in recruitment before starting up separately. Yeah, separately, yeah. Did you know each other back then?

Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt: Good friends?

Lee: Yeah, best friends.

Alex: And both in recruitment but in separate places.

Lee: Yeah, both doing our industries only in construction and sort of HGV and logistics. And we talked about it for a while, didn't we? And then all of a sudden was like, right, let's do it. Yeah, let's come together 22 years ago.

Alex: Is it just the two of you from the beginning?

Lee: No, there was another partner as, as well our FD.

Alex: Okay.

Lee: Who she retired last year. So yeah, it was the, the three of us and, and a couple of others and then we sort of grew. Was it London Roads, wasn't it?

Matt: London Road

Lee: was the first office. So a shop front office office for the driving side.

Matt: So yeah, it was me and one other consultant and I was caught in Lee saying, come on, need to come and work with us.

Alex: You'd already started.

Matt: Just started it and then, then Lee come on board and then we stopped that business and then started Streamline together as business partners. So that's, that's what we've done.

Alex: Cool. What's it been like then working with like best friends? I mean obviously you survived two decades working together so it's, it's worked out. But that must have its own challenge.

Matt: Do you know what? Lots of people when we started like shouldn't go in business with your friends. Friends and family is always the one. But for me or 22 years on, the speech for itself, it's been, we have difference of opinion but the respect is there that we just go, you know, like if I've got an opinion, Lee's like, okay, I understand that. And we. Because I think probably what's quite nice is we run different divisions.

Alex: So

Matt: our day to day is I do what I do, Lee does what he does and there's an absolute Trust there. And 22 years of success sort of tells you that, you know, if Lee's telling me something, I need to listen.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Matt, I don't agree with that. Even if I think I should do it. He says don't. I'm like, okay, he knows me as well as I know myself.

Lee: So we just talked, didn't we?

Matt: Yeah.

Lee: And to be honest, in 22 years is hand on heart. I can say it. There's not been a cross word.

Alex: Wow.

Lee: Say different opinion. But that's on one hand.

Matt: One hand. Yeah.

Lee: And even that we, we just, just agree.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: And it's possibly because of the friendship. I don't know.

Matt: I think we like, we're like minded but we also, we do think alike. So there's times when we're talking and we're finishing each other's sentences. I can, you can ask him a question and I know what's coming. Which is quite. That's not sitting there 20 years, literally. Yeah.

Alex: So yeah, really, you're really lucky. I think it's a, it's a brilliant partnership. One thing that I know that you do, you told me before is you have this regular check in. I give you a daily call. You call it your, your. I love that.

Lee: It's at least once a day. Sometimes it's two times, three times. But it is every day. And it's usually in the afternoon.

Matt: Is it?

Lee: But if every now and again, all of a sudden my phone are going, Matt's name's. I'm like in the morning, I'm like, oh, oh, what's gone.

Matt: Yeah, what's gone wrong?

Lee: What's gone wrong? And I'm at a mate, you okay? And he's like, yeah, just needed to air something. And we just, like Matt said, we just know what each other's gonna say. And we've got each other and his accounts.

Matt: Well, I can answer the phone to you and if he's like, I'll go, what's wrong? Like straight away, by the time it's. That's how well we know each other.

Lee: Sometimes it's good news.

Matt: Yeah, those morning calls are absolutely good. That's exactly right. And it's nice to make those calls when we do, isn't it?

Lee: Yeah.

Alex: So what's the business look like today?

Matt: So the business is. It's actually okay, to be fair. Got my office in Tilbury.

Alex: You moved recently?

Matt: We moved offices in Tilbury Dock. So they, they'd flattened part of. So where the original building we was in, they. They flattened and that's now just parking space and storage space. So they've moved us right by the entrance, which is brilliant. So everybody who comes in the docks can see us. Yeah, so that's great. We've had a couple of moves in London, haven't we?

Lee: Which is. That's the reason.

Matt: Quite nice, actually.

Lee: Yeah, been there nearly a year. We've come from Tower 42 over to Bevis Marks.

Alex: Yeah, I saw you in Tower 42, I think, last time.

Lee: Yeah, yeah. So now we're at Bevis Marks. Lovely sort of new serviced offices there. And yeah, really good.

Alex: Settled in structure of the team.

Lee: So on my side you've got myself and then you've got my number two sort of management team, Tom Evans, who's actually been with me 14 years, or with us, I should say 14 years. Knows the business inside out. Legend and yeah, he is

Matt: the legend.

Lee: He is. He's cool, calm, collected. He's excellent. And underneath that we've got teams that sort of look after the m&e CAD, m&e design, M and E contracting, M&Eqs and estimating and then we've also got Harry.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: On our marketing as well, who you know well.

Alex: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: And he's based in London most of the time, but comes

Alex: doing a good job.

Matt: Yes, he's doing a great job as to be said. Yeah, yeah, really good.

Lee: Really good. Really.

Alex: So you, I mean, huge experience with what you're doing and huge success. So congratulations. Let's go back though because like, I mean running a business, any business is never easy. There's challenges as we all know, and especially in recruitment. So you've been through how many recessions?

Matt: Well, those three years. It's been

Alex: 2008.

Lee: Yeah.

Alex: That challenging times. What happened? Did you have to scale back? What did it look like?

Lee: Yeah, very, very much so. He was. Well, to be honest, we thought we was quite invincible before that we was flying. We was flying. We was doing really well and moved office to Loughton from Romford and we was flying. And one of our consultants actually, he warned us. He said he knows someone who's like this financial expert, something along those lines three months before, wasn't he? Yeah. He said, I'm not billing, I've got to leave, he said because a recession coming, which is all right.

Matt: This was our first. So we were, we were quite ballsy when we was young. We very, very strong minded. So as much as we listened, we were like, we'll be all right. Yeah, we're not going to participate. We'll get through it. We'll roll our sleeves up. Like that's, that's our sort of mindset and our way of it didn't even feel like it was coming. No.

Lee: Because we were flying.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: And then all of a sudden he left and then it started to slow down and was like, right, okay, this is what he was on about. And yeah, it then hit like a ton of bricks and it was quite hard and fast as well. And yeah, he was like, no, we can get through this. And we kept trying to trade through, trade through, trade through. And then it got to a point where he was like, right, we're gonna have to make some serious cuts, some drastic changes. Yeah. And. And we didn't want to do it because these people were good people and it's no fault of them, their own, no fault of ours. But the billions weren't there because of the recession. And yeah, we had to let quite a few people go. Come back to the bare bones, the core staff that most of them are still with us today, to be honest with you.

Alex: So how do you go about that? Did you have a leadership team underneath you that were managing that or were you dealing with at the time?

Matt: We didn't. We were still reasonably small business, but everybody played a huge part. So when you was letting somebody go, there was still that job to do. So we knew we were giving ourselves a lot more work to do. At the same point, it's managing that. In a way, you feel like you're failing and you're fighting them and hardage. Like we're not yes men, but we're doers, and if we tell someone something, we stick to it. And when you've got someone that works and you're saying, invest in a property, book your holiday and all the rest of it, we're. We want people to do wedding life. And then. Yeah, when things change, are out of everybody's control, you feel like you're saying stuff that you shouldn't have said. And that's something that we go by. If we say something, we do it. And.

Lee: Yeah, so we took it personally, didn't we?

Matt: Yeah.

Lee: We told people, look on the property ladder, enjoy life. You've got to do it. And then all of a sudden we're like, all right, we might. We're gonna have to let you go. And, yeah, it's the worst part of a job. Yeah.

Matt: Yeah, very much so.

Lee: I don't think people know how much. How much it Actually.

Matt: And still to this day.

Lee: Yeah.

Matt: As much as we're seasoned in running a business, letting anybody go at any time, even if they're dreadful.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: I still. Personally, it's the hardest part. And I think everyone would say the same if they're honest, but, yeah, it's horrible.

Alex: Ultimately, you're responsible as their employer. You want everyone to do well.

Matt: But, yeah. Yeah, we've ultimately hired them as well. So we've hired them thinking. So it's our own judgment then. So as many good stories we've got, we've got as many bad.

Alex: Which.

Matt: That's part of running the business.

Alex: Right.

Matt: And it doesn't get any easier. You just. You just have to do it.

Alex: Yeah. Really tough. So how long was that period?

Matt: It's about three years from start to finish.

Lee: Yeah. It's got to be about that.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: And don't get wrong. We. We took. We did take too long to make those decisions. Yeah. To cut. Because we were. Because we took it so personally. We didn't want to let anyone down. And to be honest, where we took too long, it nearly cost us everything, didn't it?

Matt: Business and personally.

Lee: Yeah, we did. We didn't even pay ourselves for seven months to make sure the core staff were looked after. I had to move House off the back of it to finance and stuff like that.

Alex: And if you lose the call staff, it's. It's gone.

Matt: Yeah, absolutely.

Lee: Yeah. It was a learning curve.

Matt: It was. But you know, when we go back to like, we roll our sleeves up and we work hard and we, you know, part of it's taking a risk but we, we could see that there was still something there to. To continue with and it was like, what do we do? And you know, those were the toughest decisions. And we both just become dads at the time as well, hadn't we?

Lee: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: In amongst it. So it was a real, you know, to then go home and tell your wife that we're paying ourselves for a few months. You know, it's not just work that's tough. You've got home life that's tough. That you're trying to balance as well. So it was difficult.

Lee: But as you say, like where we like grafters and stuff like that, we would roll our sleeves up. And I remember one Friday, I don't know if you remember Ayres and House and I was there on a Friday night till 10 o' clock to try and fill a CAD placement for a 2 pound margin.

Matt: I thought you were going to say that. Yeah.

Lee: For a two week contract.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: Because I didn't want to let the client down and it meant that much to us to make sure we got it filled and that little bit of money to put on the bottom line.

Alex: Yeah. Meant everything.

Lee: Yeah, yeah, everything.

Matt: It's what we do. It was a case of. But you'd already committed to. Right on filling it.

Lee: Yeah.

Matt: And that's just how it is.

Alex: Has this experience back then kind of set the culture in the firm that's. I mean a lot of those people from. That stayed with you in the core team are still with you. Yeah. So has that culture carried through to today?

Lee: Yeah.

Matt: So if I. Lee spoke about his team earlier. So my team, I've got Dan as my number two.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: He's been with the business nine years. Literally, like I can with Lee, like he's my phone call if I've got something to say. I'm very, very like Lee's. I'm very, very lucky. He's solid as a rock. And then prior to that, Paul. So Paul Sullivan, he's been with us for 20 years issue. Is it? I think it is. So 20 years. He's our compliance manager now. And you can set your clock by, you know, he literally is. I Know, if he says he's doing it, it's done and he's, you know, the loyalty there is just. Is phenomenal. And, and what's nice is so when somebody new comes in, they'll speak to a Dan, they'll speak to a Paul, you know, we'll speak about Denise and Josh and accounts as well. Like, they, they are the, the hub of the administration of our business, which is so important. And obviously with the exit of Sue. Yeah, obviously they've taken on that part of the business and I have to say, you know, that they've always been brilliant. Sue shaped them brilliantly prior to her leaving and, you know, testament to her at the end of the day. But they're brilliant people. They. They do, you know, if they got stage till 10 o' clock at night, they're hard drive. They don't. They don't bang on all of them.

Alex: You set the tone from the top, though. And I think it speaks volumes at these, you know, key team members have been with you for so long and been with you through these experiences and see you two roll your sleeves up and, you know, take on personal risk and make hard decisions and, and sort of, you know, ride it out. So, yeah, it says a lot about, about you guys.

Lee: No, I appreciate it. Yeah, we are lucky.

Matt: We are really lucky.

Lee: But as you say, we try and lead from the front and don't get wrong. We're open is where we're happy to listen to any ideas that the staff have got and we try. If it's a good idea, which a lot of them are, most of them are, we will implement it.

Matt: Our best ideas have come from the start.

Lee: Yeah.

Matt: You know, it's. Who likes to be told what to do? No one, really. But it's great when you, when you get your eureka moment. Sorry. And you're like, that's brilliant.

Alex: Yeah. So you got through that. Things have been great.

Matt: Yeah.

Alex: The last two, three years, tough. I think, for. For most people, you've had some challenging times. I know we've actually been working with you for a while, so been on the up, seeing you take on some hires like Harry, for example, and it's been great seeing your journey or the most recent part. But yeah, last couple of years have been tough for everyone, but you've had some additional challenges as well. So you've had a business owner leave. Yeah, by retirement. So that's a challenge.

Matt: It's a huge.

Alex: How do you get through that with someone who's so involved in the business for so long?

Matt: So Our daily call really is. Has been sort of stemmed from part of that with, you know, there's a decision that has to be made. It's a. We've never. You've got three people that have always worked together, then you've got one that wants to leave, and rightly so. And then you navigate that and there's always going to be challenges. And that's probably one of our hardest challenges we've ever had.

Alex: Yeah. And that was last year.

Matt: That was last year.

Lee: Because even. Even at the point where there was three owners, you always had. If there was a conversation, a hard conversation to be had, majority rules, it was two against one, so it just flowed easy. Again, we've not had any issues, lucky enough and stuff like that, and we discuss it, but it just. That just made things. Things easy. So the dynamic had to change there in. In quite a big way. And we even had all the structures in place ready for. For Den and Josh to step into these roles. But you're still not prepared for someone that's been in the business for 21 years.

Matt: And then all of a sudden we've got the trust, so she run the finances. So we knew we could Trust for. For 22 years it was all fine. And it's. We've got that trust with Denise and Josh. But you still. We're a year down the line now, so we know we can trust. We knew we could trust. But you still still got to do it, haven't you?

Alex: Still a key. It's a key function there, isn't it, in the business?

Matt: Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So.

Alex: So how do things look now and what's the future for Streamline next two, three years.

Lee: Yeah. We say got settled after last year, where we're actually. We're just bringing a. We signed up this week to a new mentor coming on to the business to support myself and Matt, someone we've been speaking to for a little while, because in the past we had mentors that done very well from the business, helped us get from one level to the next level. And we've been searching for a little while. We've been sort of sitting at the same level that we're currently at for a good few years. And we're like, we. We need something else to push us on.

Matt: We've been interviewing. Really. Was it about 5 or 6?

Lee: 5, I was gonna say something like that. Yeah.

Matt: Yeah. Just, you know, we knew we needed to add something. Something to the business and in fairness, Lee has spearheaded that and he's, you know, he's well, with what we had 1, 2, 3, 3 or 4 recently. And.

Lee: Yeah.

Matt: And the guy we've brought on there is. The knowledge he's got is great, but it's just that it's another. It's another set of eyes on the business and it's. And it shakes us up. So it's like we're accountable. I know that. But when you've got someone who's got a different set of opinions and will challenge us in different ways, and when he gets involved with the team, he'll do exactly the same to them. So it's just. I think it's just positive. Yeah, it's a real positive addition.

Lee: So he's been there, he's seen it, he's done it.

Alex: Done it. Yeah.

Lee: He was number one biller. Exactly. In the company he was at. And then he set up his own business, built that up to 25 million turnover and sold that. And that's what we need. We need that bit to take us to the next level and structures in place, rewards for the staff, etc, etc. It's just. It's the soundboard, it's what we need.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: It possibly becomes that third person to a certain extent.

Matt: Absolutely.

Alex: It's something that I regret not doing sooner, is looking for that mentorship and I. We've spoken about this before. I think it was probably six, seven years ago and I don't have a partner, you know, I'm running the. Running our agency on. On my own. That's tough. But what a difference it made having that mentorship from someone who's lived it, done it and is like maybe two, three, four years ahead of you. And you talk about these issues and they're like, huh, yeah, you know, what a difference. I regret not making that call earlier.

Lee: Yeah. Because we haven't had Scott and Russell for quite a good few years now.

Matt: They were brilliant for us, you know, they transformed us. 20, 12, 13, something like that. And, you know, they had a team of people with them as well. And absolutely brilliant, you know, and we still talk about them today and what they did for us and it's. And at the same point, you can have different people in the business, but it's also good to have fresh set of eyes on the business and come in and go, right. Actually, because, you know, you become friends with people, it's like, well, we need people. The guy that's coming in, he's going to, you know, tear up the rulebook and disco again. And it's. We've got our ethics as a business and, and our way. But you know that. Let's challenge that. Let's get to the new.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: The new Streamline as we call it.

Alex: You know, but your way. You know, we talked about culture earlier, but in the intro we're talking about partnership and trust and long standing relationships and it's. These are easy words to say, but I know you have lived by this and you continue to. And you know, rolling your sleeves up in the hard work side of things is. Is. Is one thing, but having that as a core set of values has paid off for you.

Matt: Absolutely.

Alex: You know, some of your customers have been with you for decades.

Matt: 22 years.

Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt: Literally the whole time.

Lee: There was one, a guy called Tony Deacon Phoenix. Me. He was my very first perm placement for Streamline.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: In 2004 as a junior CAD technician and he's now head of BIM 22 years later and one of our best clients.

Alex: Amazing.

Lee: And he's still. And it's all about those relationships. I was having a beer with him a few days ago.

Matt: He was only out the other day.

Lee: And weirdly enough, another best client, sort of BIM free. A guy called Richard Hassell, who's actually Steve, a guy called Steve Forster made a phone call to me while I was sitting on the beach on my honeymoon.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: To be honest. And I answered the call, needed some help with CAD staff and didn't look back since.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: And weirdly enough, when I was out for a drink, I've literally put Tony and Richard together the other day. So it's. And yeah. They're long term trustworthy relationships that. Yeah.

Alex: So I love bringing in some fresh eyes and mixing it up.

Matt: Yeah.

Alex: Keeping the core values, keeping the core principles of the business, you know. So I'm excited to see what happens for you guys over the next few years.

Matt: We are, yeah. We're really excited. We've had, you know, the last few years have been tough and.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: You know, to see the next bit happen and everybody progress and.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And do well.

Alex: Take everyone with you.

Matt: Absolutely.

Alex: What do you think is the biggest challenge for you guys in the next 12 months?

Matt: Probably, sadly, it's not in our hands. I think with the world that we're in, we're governed by wars and economy and a current government that are tough against all businesses. So I think that's our biggest challenge. Going to work and doing what we do, we will continue to do. And with just the basics like the added cost of what the government have done to us with the NI increases and the corp tax Increases, you know, you can't just keep putting your prices up, you know, it's tough. So I think we just need, we could do if the world's settling down a little bit and I think we're a year away from that. So if I'm honest, I think we've just got, we've got to ride it out. Hard work and as we always say, you know, we just, we keep going and then at some point that will turn and I think it will fly. But sadly I think we've got a little bit more. We was hoping it'll be this year. The end of last year is looking really positive for this year. Some really good, good talk. But now we're in a position of everyone's gone a little bit quiet and everyone's, you know, risk averse now because no one knows what's going on with the world.

Lee: So a few bumps in the road to go, I think.

Alex: Yeah. One thing though that you guys have done is lent into marketing. So even through tough times and not everyone does that. I love that. And it's working out for you. You know, you have an internal team. We mentioned Harry earlier has done a brilliant job. He must have been with you for three years, something like that, I'm going to guess. Question actually a while.

Lee: Three or four years.

Matt: Yeah, it's got to be.

Alex: Yeah, yeah, it's got to be. But you're doing, you're, I think you're setting the tone. So he's doing a great job. But you guys are embracing the, the sort of branding, the messaging and going above and beyond what a lot of other recruiters are doing in terms of how you get your, your, your message out, how you embrace social media, how you encourage the whole team to get involved. So do you have plans from the a marketing perspective to push through at the moment?

Lee: It's, yeah, just, we've got just Harry and so many people have told us so many times over the years, haven't they? When it gets tough, don't cut back on marketing. And also mentorship, which we, which we did.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And training.

Lee: That's why we've brought that back on. But the marketing, it's actually one someone I follow an entrepreneur called James Sinclair as well and he's always said you keep marketing, it's like sales, it keeps working. It keeps working. And, and Harry is doing. I know, we've said it. He's doing a great job. Yeah, great job.

Matt: And he challenges us

Lee: every day, pushing us.

Matt: We're all doing videos that we didn't want to do. And. Yeah, do you know what? It will work. And, sorry, when I say we'll work, it's work. Yeah. The videos haven't come out that we've just recently done. But the. The bit for me is we're talking like this. We're talking about the industry. We know, and everybody resonates with that and say, I'll go to a client meeting. And they're not people that comment on LinkedIn, but they're talking about the marketing. We do. And that's enough. Yeah, that's what it's all about.

Alex: They've seen you.

Matt: We're there. They know we're there.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And at some point, that gets monetized. And that's the point.

Lee: Even put a post out today, didn't he? Because he was working from home yesterday and I called him and I said, just to let you know it, it's working. We was out with people. Someone like Matt just said he's kind of hadn't interacted with the post, but he said to me and Tom, I've seen you Two all over LinkedIn. I'm loving it. Your work's brilliant. He's based out in Dubai as well, and he's seen it. And then also I had someone else contact me on text regarding something and he went, oh, just. By the way, your LinkedIn stuff is brilliant. I'm loving. And so. And again, he doesn't interact with the post. Yeah, but they're People seeing.

Alex: You don't see it until they tell you.

Lee: Yeah, exactly. So Harry actually put a post down. It's like. And. And, you know, all credit to him because he deserves it, because those bits in the background that we don't necessarily know are happening until someone tells us.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: And.

Matt: Yeah, and he's got some real thick skin, Harry, because he. Literally some people in this. He has to. He's a West Ham fan, isn't he? Kicking and screaming, you know, to do stuff. And he. But he's honest. And he. And he. And he keeps us honest. And I love that, that he's prepared to just keep going. Right, have you done that? Is that done yet, when you're doing that? And I love it. Absolutely love it. Because he's like, we are. He's relentless. So just what you want.

Alex: Really good. So, yeah, really cool. You've got a great culture, you've got great business. So congrats again.

Lee: Thank you.

Alex: Thank you. On the leadership side of things, obviously, there's your partnership. Sue left last year, which we've spoken about, but you had Some other challenges at that level from when we last caught up that have made last year really tough as well. Is it okay if we talk about that?

Lee: Yeah, yeah. Yes. It's. Well, we'd actually.

Matt: I've just choked up as you said. It's. Yeah.

Lee: To be honest, you're going to set me off as well now, I think. But yeah, we Mark Mark in our account of 20 years and. And very good friends, to be honest, of the business.

Matt: So everyone, just us, the senior team. He would come to our. All of our socials so he knew the whole business.

Alex: So you were friends away from work as well?

Matt: Absolutely.

Lee: I was even in 2024. Crossed over at four days. My family and his family in Bali and stuff like that. And then it say 20 years. Our account of at 20 years. Our very good friend as well and knew our business inside out.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And the man was a legend. He just knew everything about it. It was the phone call, you know, we'd speak to each other and you go, I'll give Mark a call or I talk to him. I go, just run that past Mark.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And he literally, as much as he was our accountant. What do you think of that?

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And the sound board, he. He literally was one of the best sound boards. He knew someone for something. If you go, nothing to do with recruitment. It might be something personal. I was running past Mark. Yeah.

Alex: And he would be the man and he knew the business inside out, obviously been with you for so long and to lose him, obviously, tragic.

Lee: Yeah. And say sue was getting ready to leave the business. He was ready to help us drive forward and stuff like. Because he knew it inside out and all of a sudden he wasn't there and he had done all the strategy for that.

Matt: So literally that all happened and then po. Sue. So everybody now is like, we've. We've got now a new accountant appointed from the same company. Jamie. He's doing great by the way. But obviously he's got to start. He's starting from zero. And we've had a 22 year relationship with. With the person who trained him in a difficult environment. I've had, you know, that you've lost.

Alex: So. Yeah. Tough. Really tough.

Lee: And it was sudden as well. He was sudden.

Matt: Yeah.

Lee: He was literally a massive heart attack. It was so. It wasn't. He was still over time. It was just sudden. Just is gone.

Alex: And it was like, wow.

Lee: And to be honest. Yeah. Still I'm still massively by it and I'm sure.

Alex: Quite sure. Yeah, of course. I mean it's it's tough, this stuff. It's beyond business.

Lee: Yeah.

Alex: So you'd be glad to see the back of last year.

Matt: Yep, very much so, yes.

Alex: Hopefully this year, as we sat here towards the beginning of 2026, hopefully it's a better year for you guys. You're well positioned to keep going, keep grafting, keep working hard until the sector and the economy picks up and then you'll be ready to, to kick on. New mentor and see where things go. What is the, is the vision, Is there an. A sort of exit in mind? Is there a plan? Is there a succession plan? Are you even thinking about that?

Matt: All of that?

Lee: Yeah.

Alex: Okay.

Matt: Yeah. So we're 10 years or a 10 year plan?

Lee: Yeah.

Matt: And we've. The point of the getting the mentoring is to then stabilize the teams below us, bring in share options and just sort of grow the business and us eventually just work our way out. That's the plan, that's what we want to do.

Alex: Great. I've got no doubt that you'll make it happen.

Lee: Fingers crossed. Touch wood.

Alex: Yeah. All right. Have you got time for our quick fire round? All right, let's get into it. So what's the best piece of advice that you've ever received, both of you?

Lee: I've. I've got a couple.

Alex: Go for it.

Lee: One is, and I can't tell you who told me this, but it was many years ago and it's, it's not all just necessarily recruitments in life as well. It's. There's three sides to every story. Everyone says there's two sides to every story, but there's not, there's three. And the guys in the office will be laughing if they can hear this because I say all the time, because what you've got, you've got the two sides, there's that person side and then the truth is actually in the middle somewhere and it's something I always live my life by and that's solid something. And the other one is my good old dad, he taught me this from a young age. If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing properly. He said, if you're going to do it, just do it 100%, don't do it 50%. Just a hundred job's worth doing, do it properly.

Alex: Yeah, love it.

Matt: So, and I was brought up on the same moral of that. One of the best bits of advice that, that I ever had, that's actually for the business we was in on a stag do in Marbella was in News Cafe and I didn't know him at the time, but Gary Goldsmith was in there.

Alex: Oh, yeah.

Matt: So I'm. I'm talking recruitment.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Tell him what we do. Obviously I'm thinking I'm the big fish.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Wasn't quite as big a fish at the time. He says, you're factoring what you're doing. So yeah, we factored 100. He said, what, 100? Yeah. So I'm thinking I'm doing great. He went, you need to be getting out of fact. You can't be factored. Said you've got to do your own payroll. I was like, all right. So I come back from the stag do. Yeah. Within a month we'd come away from it, but then the recession kicked in and if we hadn't have come away, we'd have been gone.

Alex: Wow.

Matt: So that was one of the best bits of advice that we didn't know at the time.

Alex: Perfect timing as well.

Matt: Cheers, Gary.

Alex: Yeah, very cool.

Matt: Thank you.

Alex: What do you know now that you wish you knew when you started?

Matt: Quite a good one from my perspective. Well, it's actually both is the finances of the business. So sue always run that.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: And we allowed her to. Cuz that was her job. Sorry, we allowed her to. No, we done our job. She done her job.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: I wish that probably after a couple of years of being in business that we had a real handle of that we always understood, but not to the level we've known in the last, say probably since 2012. So we run a business for six, eight years of understanding a bit, but not in depth. So that you know, if you're going to run a business, be your accountant day one. And to be fair, the business run well because she'd done her job very well and we understood it.

Alex: But.

Matt: But it's the detail.

Alex: Yeah, yeah.

Matt: And it's not just running the business, it's how taxes are. What NI is, you know, in our business with umbrella companies, it's knowing that inside out. And that's probably the. The bit I wish if I was going to start again.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: Handle that straight away.

Lee: Yeah. Straight from the off now you're right. Right, definitely. To be honest.

Alex: Same.

Lee: Yeah. It's very much, very much something we've agreed on and say, so you've done us, done us very well. But there we just something. You literally had your finger on the pulse with every sort of figure from the start. It's the best way forward.

Alex: All right. What do you think is one thing that most recruitment business owners get wrong?

Matt: This is easy for us. I say most but it's us. We keep people too long. We're too nice.

Alex: Yeah.

Matt: So we're not cutthroat enough and we know that.

Alex: Trust your gut.

Lee: Yeah.

Matt: Something well used. But. But yeah, there's a. Well, Tom's the reason. Right. Yeah.

Lee: Yeah. And I. We've. With Tom, it wasn't working out for him at the start, but I could see what he was doing, so I knew it was coming and I had to hold someone off from letting them go. I was like, no, no, I can see what he's doing that's coming. But there's sometimes, like Matt said, that we can see it's not happening, but we're, like, hoping it will happen. So that's. That's us. But we can't say every recruitment, some people might just go, right, done. Out you go. So that's just a matter. But yeah, there's so many different personalities that something we might say, we. We do wrong, they might do right.

Alex: I think it rings true for a lot of people in the space, but in business in general.

Lee: No, exactly.

Alex: Is there a tool or a resource that you guys have used that's helped you succeed or get ahead?

Lee: That's back to the mentorship side of things.

Alex: Yeah, that.

Lee: That. That helped us in the past.

Matt: It helped us hugely. I think it trans. It transformed our whole way of thinking and running a business.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: So hence why we've gone. Right. We need to go back to this because we need to go again. Put everything in place.

Alex: Yeah. Cool. Last one. What's the bravest decision you've ever made?

Lee: This. Because this is when we. It was. It was on one of Matt's clients, a very big client. A very good client.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: And we traded without credit. Where we had credit for 250,000.

Alex: Yeah.

Lee: Pounds on this particular client. And we traded to a million pounds. So we was uninsured.

Matt: Yeah.

Lee: 750, 000 pounds. And so.

Matt: And we just said if it goes wrong, we'll. We do what we've got to do. And don't tell my wife. No, Quite sure I mentioned it,

Alex: but it worked out.

Matt: It did. It did. I'm still good friends. Yeah.

Lee: Yeah,

Matt: yeah.

Alex: Brilliant. All right. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you both in double trouble today. Really appreciate it. You guys are great. Congratulations again on your success. Thank you. And thanks for sharing your stories. It's, you know, it's generous of you. Really appreciate it.

Lee: No, thank you for having us. Been very enjoyable.

Alex: All right, thank you. Thank you. If people want to find out more about you guys. Where should they go? streamline-recruitment.com.

Lee: That's it.

Alex: And on LinkedIn.

Lee: LinkedIn always. Yeah, that's where mainly are on LinkedIn.

Alex: So that's been Off the Record. Thanks for hanging out with us. Appreciate it. If this resonated with you. You liked it. Please share it with someone you think would enjoy listening to us talk like and subscribe and all that good stuff. I've been. Alex Faiers, thanks for hanging out. We'll catch you on the next one.

Matt: Thank you. Cheers.

Lee: Thank you very much.